Tuesday, October 26, 2004

Voting Bush Down

Voting Bush Down ("News")

This is the article that I was talking about in BW3.

"So, vote Bush down and lift America up. Let me give you a few reasons in support of this slogan.
1...What egotism it would be if Bush claimed the right of building weapons is only reserved for Americans and that no other nation is allowed to do the same."

Ummm... i think it's more let's not let the crazy nations build nukes...

"2. It would be quite frightening if American people give the “License to Kill” to someone who has damaged his credibility by shoving more than 1,000 Americans into an unjustified war and forcing them to kill more than 10,000 innocent Iraqis. "

unjustified war? remember Saddam Hussien (sp?) he was a very very evil person, and we, as the only superpower left, have the job of stopping very evil men from running countries.

"3. Do you think it’s a wise decision to just throw away $80 billion? You could have bought the whole continent, including Saddam Hussein, instead of spending this money to destroy a country and the American economy."

The money was not 'thrown away', we can not 'buy' muslems, they are happy in their self-centered world, and the war did not destroy the economy.

"4...After the invasion of Iraq, Muslims at Abu Ghraib suffered humiliation as never before in world history..."

HA! that is a lie. A lie as never seen before in world history. ^_^

"5. The Bush administration appointed a former CIA agent, Iyad Allawi, as the interim prime minister of Iraq. What kind of democracy is that?"

interim, interim... and really we can do whatever the crap we need to do to get the country running.

6. "...So what do you expect in terms of forthcoming Iraqi elections and democracy under these circumstances? Obviously, the value of Iraqi elections would not be more than a joke in democracy’s name."

'you didn't allow a vote for the interm prime minister! you are evil!!!! You allow voting! you are evil!!!'

"7. After the Iraqi invasion, porn movies are freely available to Iraqi children on streets of Baghdad. This came to me from a friend who lives in Baghdad and has seen it happen."

And this *huge*, *new* problem is Bush fault how?

"8. Three million Americans have lost their jobs under Bush’s government."

Yeah and i lost 12 bucks today at BW3, but i still made money overall. Don't half state the statistics, how many jobs were created? And remember that when Bush took over the Internet bubble just popped.

"9. You are tired of being lied to, and you want your civil liberties back."

This is one of the things i don't like about the anti bush people. When has Bush lied, when?!?
Was it about WMD? Because ANY prez would have done the same thing. Kerry said to attack, and he would of if he was the prez. That is not a lie that Bush told, he was conveying the information he got.
GIVE ME A LIE THAT BUSH HAS TOLD!!!!! (Im sure there must be atleast one...)

"10. According to KLAS-TV, Republican party officials presided over a voter registration scandal."

And the Dems are scandal free (yeah right....).

Genral remarks:
Why is this 10 reasons not to vote for Bush? Shouldn't articles be why to vote for Kerry? You never see them. Why? Because Kerry is worse than Bush, and people are just bent on removing Bush from office they dont care who the crap they put in his place..,.. Well except for Nader, hes worse than Bush, cause if he is on the ballot then he must be for Bush or something.


Anonymous said...

Okay I know you've been waiting for this so here goes:

1. First of all Saddam was not building nukes (there may have been indications but these were unconfirmed), on the other hand we had cold hard evidence that North Korea was building nukes (they are just as crazy as Iraq) what about Pakistan and Iran? If we bomb one that theoretically might have WMD, then why did we let the countries that DID have WMD go?

2. Yes, I believe it was an unjustified war. There are lots of crazy leaders out there, but that doesn't give us the right to go invade their countries... there are tons out there that we haven't done a thing to... North Korea, Cuba's Fidel Castro, why Saddam? Additionally, if he's so crazy, then why did the United States give him tons of weapons, training, intelligence information, and financial backing in the 1980's. Yes, these are some of the very same weapons we later threatened to invade his country for having (but WE gave them to him). The only reason he became so powerful in his country was because of the US's intervention. This is also true of Osama bin Laden. How did he get so good at planning terrorist attacks you wonder? Oh, yeah... it's because we trained him and gave him money and weapons!

3. Okay the money was not thrown away... worse it was used to bomb women, children, innocent victims of an oil grudge. It certainly had a negative impact on our economy... if nothing else in the form of an increased national debt... The interest on our current national debt is higher than the combined budgets of homeland security, education, transportation, justice, and the environment. That seems like an economic impact to me.

4. I agree that these are crimes that have been seen in history numerous times... that does not mean that they are acceptable or that the perpetrators should not be punished.

5. I agree that that was a dumb point in the article although I would like to note that the US has a history of removing democratically installed leaders and replacing them with dictators for our own financial gain.

6. My only question is what if Saddam was the leader that they wanted to choose. I know that a large part of the middle east probably considers Bush a threat and a crazy dictator (e.g. going to war without the support of a large portion of the United States or the United Nations). Different sides are bound to view things differently...

7. This is a very strange point... I agree that it is dumb.

8. Ah the key to this is the NET job loss. Sure he created some jobs, but the net loss was the first one in 70 years. Also I would like to believe that this was a result of the "internet bubble" but the place where jobs were hit the hardest was manufacturing (probably in part due to tax incentives to ship jobs over seas).

9. You want lies: How about in May of 2003 when Bush said that we had found WMD, and then in February 2004 when he admitted that none had been found? How about when Bush vowed that he would doing everything in his power to find Osama bin Laden "dead or alive" and then 6 months later said that "he was not that concerned about him" and removed troops to go bomb Iraq. How about when he said that he would "make sure that first responders and firefighters would have everything they need to do their job" and then cut their budgets? How about when he tried to convince the American public that there was a link between Iraq and 9/11 despite the fact that there was never any evidence of a connection? How about not thoroughly checking out intelligence information that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction BEFORE we went in and bombed them (although not technically a lie... it certainly isn't a sign of truthfulness)? If Bush believed that WMD were there, why did he continue to change the reasons we were going to war with Iraq (first WMD, then 9/11, then suddenly we were doing Iraq a favor by "freeing" them)? How about calling a bill the "Clean Skies Act" in which environmental regulations are turned back to pre-Clean Air Act levels? I could go on... but I have more things to do...

10. I don't really know about the voter scandal issues, but it does seem suspicious to me that Florida, a state run by Bush's brother, was the place of the greatest scandal... additionally, there are some indications that minorities (which typically vote Democrat) were unfairly excluded from voter registration.

Frankly, I voted for Howard Dean (he's a little more liberal), but since he didn't win... damnit I'm voting for Kerry. The place that I think that Bush did the most damage (but is the least talked about) is the environment and Kerry has an excellent record on environmental protection. I might vote for Nader if he had a chance of beating Bush, but he doesn't so I'll save my vote. In a sense you are right, the people are so desperate to beat Bush that anyone is better than Bush... says something about Bush doesn't it?
The End.

Ookami Snow said...

First, thanks for reading all of my post, it was very long ^_^. Second thatnks for taking some time to reply with thoughtful answers, it is better than rettoric responces. Thrid, who are you? I would guess Julia, but you could be Amber...

I was hoping to get some stuff done, so i wnt spend too much time answering, but i will try to tuch on all the points. This is a better thing to do over conversation anyways, 'specially if you are the person who lives here ^_^.


1. Saddam ans WMD: When we attacked Iraq we thought that he was building nukes. Remeber that he was not letting weapons inspectors in to check. It is also possible (i belive confirmed, although i can't remember where i heard this from, so will just stick with possible) that Saddam was selling information to other terrioist groups on tech to build WMD.

2. Unjustified War: Really we chose Iraq beacuse of oil (i think), Iraq and N. Korea both posed the same threat to us, and to their own people. But really what can N. Korea do? So we took out the contry that would give us the biggest gain. (Ill get to the part about helping Iraq and al Queda later)

3. Wasted money on Iraq: True, it was an economic impact, I just said it wasnt wasted money. Also remeber the economy dropping cut tax revinue, so it is possible *probable ?* that the current spending of the gov. before the war would have put us in the red.

4. Tortue of prisoners: I agree. they should held accountable and be punished for what they did, it was uncalled for.

5. Democratic leaders removed: I do not know of such things, when or who was these?

6. Here's a problem that Sam (a guy from the stat dept. who is playing hockey, and before he came here was serving in Iraq) brought up. Alot (almost half) of the people in Iraq

Ookami Snow said...

(stupid me....)
anyways.... half the people in Baghdad (not all of Iraq) were employed as bureaucracy. That group of people is mad that Saddam was kicked out of power, because they had very good paying jobs. There rest however lived in poverty, and they were happy to see us come. Now the people who are out of an easy job are ganging up with war lords and causing a ruckus. It average Iraqi is happy that we are there, but it is this rather large group of former bureaucrats that are causing all the problems. And we are not able to rebuild, cause anything we build they tear down. I only got to talk to sam about this over lunch before a hockey game at St.Louis, i would like to learn more because i think the public has the wrong idea about our role in the war.

7. --

8. Net job loss: Yes i do believe we have a net job loss since the beginning of his term... is this due to natural market cycles, or Bush, or something else. I would say mostly market cycle, partly else (9/11, etc...), part Bush. (But is it bad to lose jobs that are low paying to make more high paying jobs?)

9. Did Bush lie: Of coarse Bush 'lied'. If every thing is taped of your life for four years and then all if compared to itself to see if you said the same thing thought-out, you would 'lie' as well. There are two kind of 'lies' one is saying what you think to be true, then finding out different and changing your position. The other is *knowing* one thing, and saying the other. [Clinton lied on the stand, he knew he had sex with Monica, and said he didn't]
Bush WMD Iraq: Bush did not lie, he was told Iraq had WMD and then he said that they did... i doubt he just made that up.
Bush vowing to get Osama: this is also a change of position not a lie... i guess a 'vow' makes it more permanent than a normal statement, but if he didn't say 'i vow' you still would have brought up this...
Bush cutting Fire/PD budgets: "make sure that first responders and firefighters would have everything they need to do their job" sounds like it is coming from somewhere, what is the rest of the statement, and how did he cut the budget, was it a needed cut? I do not know...
Iraq link: Again i am sure he is just relaying information that the experts/advisors are giving him.
Check intel: I do not know how much doubt there was in the reports when they were given to Bush, who knows he did check the intel, i do not know about this, so i can not say one way or the other.
Clean skies act: I do know about the bill, but i didn't think he named the bill...

Remember to keep Bush separate from everything the gov does, he only has the final say on things that other people are informing him about. I do think the people who gave the intel on WMD dropped the ball big time on that... but *if Kerry was in the same position he would have done the same thing*. So we can not fault Bush for this.

10. Voter scandal: I also do not know much about voter scandal in FL, but remember it was a 50% chance that Bush won, so it does not seem that improbable that he won fairly even with his brother in office. And i did hear something about some minorities not being able to vote, but it has been to long for me to remember what the deal was...

Anyways, I really hope that this election isn’t close, because some people are already crying foul (Cal., Fl.). So hopefully one person will win by enough that it wont matter. I am tired about people complaining about things....

Ah well, once again thanks for the reply, and i look forward to seeing what you have to say back. ^_^